• Staff 3.4k

    nik over 5 years ago

    Hi folks,

    I have PMd you all with the following message. Please check out the updated Tracks pages of artists you are interested in, and let us know any feedback you have by filling out this survey https://goo.gl/forms/8P8rbS3g3swg3mIu2

    You are of course also welcome to leave feedback / discuss / ask questions here.

    Thanks!

    Nik

    ======================================

    Hi!

    We have done some changes to the "Tracks" beta feature, and thought you would like to know.

    We have refreshed the indexing of all the indexed artists, they are listed in this post.

    What has changed? We have flattened the "Recording" part of the Composition - Recording - Track data model, as we felt the results of several attempts to automatically group tracks into individual Recordings were unsatisfactory. The Recording concept may at some point resurface once we have got more testing and feedback regarding the larger Composition grouping for Tracks.

    A knock on effect of this is we have removed the artist column and artist credits from the interface. These were there as they were used when we attempted to automatically derive the Recording groupings.

    With both these things gone, the interface is simplified.

    Some other things have been changed / added. You may have seen already that your collection / wantlist icons are now in the Tracks interface. We are now sorting Tracks alphabetically when 'Title' or 'Tracks Count' is selected for the sort type.

    If you have the time to check out some artists, and give up feedback in this survey, that would be much appreciated, and will help us develop this feature further.

    Remember you can also post and discuss things with other people in the beta group here.

    Thanks!

    Nik and the Database Squad
  • marcelrecords over 5 years ago

    do I see correctly that no classical composers are on the list of indexed artists?
    if that's true, could you add one?
    I'd very much like to see what that yields for results...
  • IbLeo over 5 years ago

    Thanks for the notification of the new beta version - appreciated. I went to Roy Orbison and the page failed to load the tracks. Reloading the page does not help.
    https://www.discogs.com/artist/145072-Roy-Orbison/tracks
  • Mop66 over 5 years ago

    There are stil only very few artists in the list that I have some decent knowledge about so the use is a little limited for me atm and I might not recognize issues due to it. I realized again of course some duplicated tracks that are listed several times due to inconsistent spelling or punctuation. I am still wondering if it is one aim of the tracks feature to harmonize this, is i.e a title is obviously given wrong on on one release compared to the intent of the artist and other releases? If we Identify such using the feature is it desired to correct it?
  • Staff 3.4k

    nik over 5 years ago

    Thanks for checking in folks!

    marcelrecords
    do I see correctly that no classical composers are on the list of indexed artists?
    if that's true, could you add one?
    I'd very much like to see what that yields for results...


    Yeh that would be interesting for sure. Do you have any in mind that are not too big (artists with too many tracks break the beta at this stage).

    IbLeo
    Thanks for the notification of the new beta version - appreciated. I went to Roy Orbison and the page failed to load the tracks. Reloading the page does not help.
    https://www.discogs.com/artist/145072-Roy-Orbison/tracks


    Sorry about that. Roy Orbison was always on the edge of being too bug for this stage in the beta. Will be a good test to get him working. Thanks for letting us know!

    Mop66
    There are stil only very few artists in the list that I have some decent knowledge about so the use is a little limited for me atm and I might not recognize issues due to it


    Fair enough. It is limited at the moment for sure, only a couple of thousand artists. Let me know a few you'd like to see, and we can see if we can index them.

    Mop66
    I realized again of course some duplicated tracks that are listed several times due to inconsistent spelling or punctuation. I am still wondering if it is one aim of the tracks feature to harmonize this, is i.e a title is obviously given wrong on on one release compared to the intent of the artist and other releases? If we Identify such using the feature is it desired to correct it?


    The whole project is a learning experience first and foremost. These are good questions. IMHO, we can use the feature to spot data entry errors for sure, and correct them. I am less sure about trying to blanket harmonise all track names, there is a point where the variations are important, and we loose the data richness by trying to make them all the same, so I'd avoid that at this point. We will hopefully have a manual editing feature to join these variations into the same composition at some point.
  • Mop66 over 5 years ago

    nik
    I am less sure about trying to blanket harmonise all track names, there is a point where the variations are important, and we loose the data richness by trying to make them all the same, so I'd avoid that at this point.


    Ok, I read that as obvious errors are ok to be corrected like "Umtitled" into "Untitled". This might be either a typo during data entry, which clearly deserves correction of a misprinted word on the release, when we can correct it to the intended word with a note about the typo.
    But "Title (Subtitle)" only given as "Title" should stay if it is given in the abbreviated form on the release.
    What about punctuation issues, like "Is This A Question" vs. "Is This A Question?"?
    nik
    Fair enough. It is limited at the moment for sure, only a couple of thousand artists. Let me know a few you'd like to see, and we can see if we can index them.

    Certainly artists on my favourite artist list (or some other more Rock / Pop oriented acts) might be useful for me:
    Manfred Mann's Earth Band, Manfred Mann, Manfred Mann (2), The Alan Parsons Project, Billy Squier, Queen, AC/DC, Whitesnake, Iron Maiden etc.
  • Mop66 over 5 years ago

    If the above are too big then also these might work, pick any that are feasible: Rodgau Monotones, Ich + Ich, Joe Bonamassa, Beth Hart, Matchbox Twenty, BAP, Supertramp.
  • marcelrecords over 5 years ago

    nik
    Yeh that would be interesting for sure. Do you have any in mind that are not too big (artists with too many tracks break the beta at this stage).


    no problem, some 'minor' composers:

    Willem de Fesch
    Pieter Hellendaal
    Willem Pijper

    if these aren't suitable, let me know, I'll fork up some others
    [email protected]!
  • mawiles over 5 years ago

    I had a look at DJ Tatana, which has some grouping problems wrt different mixes.

    For example, there is
    Children Of Love (Alex M.O.R.P.H. & Woody Van Eyden Remix) - 9 Tracks
    - Children Of Love
    - Children Of Love (Album Version)
    - Children Of Love (Album Version)
    - Children Of Love (Alex Morph Vs. Woody Van Eyden Remix)
    - Children Of Love (Alex M.o.r.p.h. & Woody Van Eyden Remix)
    - Children Of Love (Alex M.o.r.p.h. & Woody Van Eyden Remix)
    - Children Of Love (Alex M.o.r.p.h & Woody Van Eyden Remix)
    - Children Of Love (Alex M.o.r.p.h & Woody Van Eyden Remix)
    - Children Of Love (Radio Version)

    and there is also:
    Children Of Love (Alex M.O.R.P.H. & Woody van Eyden Remix) - 2 Tracks
    - Children Of Love (Alex Morph Vs. Woody Van Eyden Remix)
    - Children Of Love (Alex M.o.r.p.h. & Woody Van Eyden Remix)

    I would expect the following grouping, given that ignoring whitespaces, punctuation and joiners (&, vs.) were implemented:
    Children Of Love - 1 Track
    - Children Of Love

    Children Of Love (Album Version) - 2 Tracks
    - Children Of Love (Album Version)
    - Children Of Love (Album Version)

    Children Of Love (Alex M.O.R.P.H. & Woody van Eyden Remix) - 7 Tracks
    - Children Of Love (Alex Morph Vs. Woody Van Eyden Remix)
    - Children Of Love (Alex Morph Vs. Woody Van Eyden Remix)
    - Children Of Love (Alex M.o.r.p.h. & Woody Van Eyden Remix)
    - Children Of Love (Alex M.o.r.p.h. & Woody Van Eyden Remix)
    - Children Of Love (Alex M.o.r.p.h. & Woody Van Eyden Remix)
    - Children Of Love (Alex M.o.r.p.h & Woody Van Eyden Remix)
    - Children Of Love (Alex M.o.r.p.h & Woody Van Eyden Remix)

    Children Of Love (Radio Version) - 1 Track
    - Children Of Love (Radio Version)

    Furthermore, I corrected a title on Tatana* - Electrify (Remixed), but the tracks haven't changed. Is there a way to update it?
  • IbLeo over 5 years ago

    I did some more testing this morning and filled the survey with my generic feedback. Some more detailed remarks here:

    1) Jonathan Wilson: Tracks works really well now!
    2) Roy Orbison: Tracks still fails to load.
    3) Joni Mitchell: Two remarks:
    3a) I fail to understand why the composition "A Case Of You" appears twice: Once with 37 tracks and once again with 125 tracks. The same applies to a number of other tracks, like "Big Yellow Taxi" that appears three times.
    3b) "A Case Of You = Do Poslední Kapky" (the title is translated into Czech) appears apart from the two others. I would group it with the others. This happens quite a few times. I realize now that this is a generic suggestion that I should have provided in the questionnaire. Sorry for that :)

    I would like to see Tracks on one or two artists that I know really well and own a lot of albums with. Is it possible to have Gnags and/or Gasolin' added into next build?
  • marcelrecords over 5 years ago

    marcelrecords
    no problem, some 'minor' composers:

    Willem de Fesch
    Pieter Hellendaal
    Willem Pijper

    if these aren't suitable, let me know, I'll fork up some others
    [email protected]!


    any news here nik ?
    thanks...
  • gone4sure over 5 years ago

    Thanks for inviting me.
    I really can't think of many reasons for the usefulness of the tracks index
    It would work for me if there was a way of finding a list of cover versions of one track
    For example "Hold On, I'm Comin'". It 'd be really helpful to list artists and releases.

    The only reason that the tracks index works as it is right now is for someone to find out in how many releases a particular track has been included (of the same artist).

    But, this is really tricky. It should have been useful not to list as different tracks the same mispelled or alternatively titled songs. For example
    "Hold On, I'm Coming"
    "Hold On I'm Comin'"
    Hold On (I'm Coming)"
    etc.

    All these variations should be listed under one one entry.

    Also, every listed track should be linked with its writers to avoid any confusion with same titles but different tracks.

    Further i can't see the point to link one track with 8 editions of the same album. It would work better if one track would be linked with one of the many editions of an album. I mean when i see the title of a track and next of it "5 tracks" written (for example) i expect to see 5 different releases that include this track. Not 5 different editions of the same album.

    IbLeo
    I fail to understand why the composition "A Case Of You" appears twice: Once with 37 tracks and once again with 125 tracks. The same applies to a number of other tracks, like "Big Yellow Taxi" that appears three times.


    I totally agree with the above.
  • Erit_Invictus over 5 years ago

    I reviewed the new Tracks and filled the survey.

    I'll repeat the most important points:

    ° As it stands, it is a vastly superior replacement for the track search form. Easy to use and easy to understand.
    ° However the algorithm need some retouching so it doesn't confuse different tracks as being the same (https://www.discogs.com/artist/148994-Orpheus-4/tracks is an example)
    ° We should strive to be able to make such minor edits ourselves. A sorting algorithm has limits, and ultimately only case by case examination will be able to make perfect lists.
  • Erit_Invictus over 5 years ago

    PD: Can't seem to edit my poist. thanks for inviting me and asking for my help.

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